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Thread: Creatures and Valorous rolls

  1. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Helsinki, Finland
    KAP 5.2, p. 211:
    "Failure on a Valorous roll indicates a character’s reluctance to close with the beast for 1 round (another roll may be attempted each round), while a fumble indicates that the character flees in terror for 1d6 rounds at least before he returns to his senses. A character who succeeds on a Valorous roll but who doesn’t wish to attack a particularly fierce creature (such as a dragon or giant whom he has no real chance of defeating) may then make a Prudent roll to avoid the combat, usually without dishonor."

    This to me implies that even if you fail, you would not roll Cowardly any more. The Failure in Valorous is enough to freeze you against these terrifying foes, while a fumble would make you flee in Terror (and get a Cowardly checkmark, I'd argue, for that show of cowardice even if that is perhaps the smartest thing to do).

  2. #12
    Morien, nothing in that statement contradicts table 4.1, KAP 5.2, p. 85 or any other Trait rule for that matter. My sole curiosity was about the creature modifier itself.
    Last edited by dwarinpt; 11-02-2017 at 10:13 PM.

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Helsinki, Finland
    Either you are missing my point or I am missing yours.

    The Valorous roll vs. terrifying monsters is not a straight up Trait Roll, but a Trait TEST. You HAVE TO succeed in Valorous if you intend to attack the creature (although I do allow Defensive fighting if you are attacked yourself). You CANNOT choose to act Valorous. If you fail Valorous, you fail, with the listed consequences for the failure; thus, you never go on to roll Cowardly.

    Now, it is arguable if this is a good thing, but it is the way it is currently written.

  4. #14
    And I agree with Morien as that is how I run it. The modifier is to valorous. If you fail, you do not necessarily run away, BUT you do NOT have to roll on the cowardly trait. Thus, there is no competing sides of the trait.

    A little rough, but this is how I would handle things.

    Valorous vs Creature Critical Success Failure Fumble
    may attack may attack won't attack this round check to cowardly

    If able to attack, roll Prudent vs. Reckless
    Prudent (wins) won't attack, withdraw attack only with numbers depends check to reckless
    Reckless (wins) will attack will attack depends check to Prudent

  5. #15
    I'm sorry. I keep reading that section and I don't see it that way. First, you make the distinction between a Trait Roll and a Trait Test. Please point me to the rules where that distinction is made. Assuming we ignore the Cowardly roll for now, when do I roll Cowardly if not against fearsome beasts? Against normal humans? In Battle? When someone casts a 'fear' spell? You see, if you introduce an exception, that exception can be applied to whatever to whatever the GM fancies.

  6. #16
    My 2 cents: in fact, it seems that there is no distinction in that section between a "roll" and a "test".

    In my opinion there is one single difference with the normal Trait roll, at par. 5: "if a creature has a modifier, then a character must always make a Valorous roll before attacking it". This suggests that everyone must test Valorous, not just those with a 16+ score.
    So, my guess is that both the Valorous roll and the (optional) Prudent roll work almost exactly like normal Trait rolls: If you fail, you roll the opposite Trait, which is also modified according to the fiend's characteristics.
    However, the Valorous roll is probably mandatory for all knights, whatever their (modified) Valorous score is.
    Specularly, the section's wording suggests that the Prudent roll is optional for everyone, and you are not forced to roll it (although you probably should) if you have (modified) Prudent 16+ and succeeded on the Valorous roll.

  7. #17
    The rules as writen imply this adjustment on both Traits. I admit this is a bit abstract and open to interpretation.
    This is the answer I like the most

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