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Thread: Seducing Guinevere

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel72916 View Post
    I will have to look up Margawse, thank you.
    Both Margawse and Morgan are high-status ladies with key roles in the GPC who will absolutely land you in a peck of trouble by being involved with them. You should totally go for it, in other words.

    In the GPC Margawse marries King Lot, but seduces (or is seduced by) Arthur early in his reign. She's also probably about 16 years older than Arthur, marrying Lot the same year Uther weds Ygraine.

    An additional interesting--and considerably more stable--target could be Anna, the "other" daughter of Gorlois and Ygraine. She gets little text in the legends, and in the GPC is shuffled off to marry a king in Brittany. I believe she's the oldest, as well, so perhaps 17 or 18 at her father's death.

    --Khanwulf

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khanwulf View Post
    An additional interesting--and considerably more stable--target could be Anna, the "other" daughter of Gorlois and Ygraine. She gets little text in the legends, and in the GPC is shuffled off to marry a king in Brittany. I believe she's the oldest, as well, so perhaps 17 or 18 at her father's death.
    Anna is replaced by Elaine in GPC, and she marries King Nentres of Garloth, which is in south-eastern Caledonia, just north of Nohaut, not in Brittany.

  3. #13
    The impression I get from Geoffrey of Monmouth is that, in his work, Anna is the daughter of Uther and Igraine, Arthur's full sister, and the Morgause counterpart (Lot's wife and the mother of Gawain and Mordred) - though some have argued for an alternate reading of the text, in which Anna is the sister of Ambrosius and Uther.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Morien View Post
    Anna is replaced by Elaine in GPC, and she marries King Nentres of Garloth, which is in south-eastern Caledonia, just north of Nohaut, not in Brittany.
    Thanks Morien, that's what I get for conflating sources and the GPC, and making assumptions.

    Anyway, the point is that there are a few other eligible ladies out there to set (high) sights on, if desired.

    --Khanwulf

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlyn View Post
    The impression I get from Geoffrey of Monmouth is that, in his work, Anna is the daughter of Uther and Igraine, Arthur's full sister, and the Morgause counterpart (Lot's wife and the mother of Gawain and Mordred) - though some have argued for an alternate reading of the text, in which Anna is the sister of Ambrosius and Uther.
    Hoel of Brittany being referred to as Arthur's nephew, right? That reference is missing in GPC, as is Anna.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khanwulf View Post
    Thanks Morien, that's what I get for conflating sources and the GPC, and making assumptions.

    Anyway, the point is that there are a few other eligible ladies out there to set (high) sights on, if desired.
    No worries, I just wanted to correct that assumption.

    Also, the reason I singled out Margawse and Morgan Le Fey is that both are canonically inclined to take knightly lovers (Lamorak for one, Accolon for the other), and are bloody marvellous fun for the GM to introduce. These two are no shrinking violets, but strong-willed queens, with plots and plans of their own. Especially Morgan can get the hapless PKs involved in soooo much trouble... :P

  6. #16
    I realized that I am getting ahead of myself. As we are playing the Grand Campaign and are in Salisbury, is there someone that my first generation knight should go after, to set myself for the future?

  7. #17
    That depends on what your PK does. Guinevere and Lancelot's hidden romance eventually brings down everything. The PK, if male and my assumption is you are, could not replace Arthur, but could replace Lancelot. Of course, once Lancelot arrives on scene, you and him could have a deadly confrontation. You could try for Margawse, but as state, she marries King Lot. Elaine, the other sister of Margawse and Morgan, is schedule to marry King Nentes. These two are political in nature. Remember that marriages are most times for political reasons. King Vortigern married for such, he arranged marriages for thus, and Uther is doing the same. So, you may not make it in the first round with these ladies. However, you do have other targets that the gamemaster should make known and available. Some of these could very well get you a high leg up in the political realm. But they may not come about until their husbands' deaths, or the game starts.

    The gm is also letting you know up front that if you read that Lancelot did this quest, or Galehad did that, your PK has the chance to do it instead. So, in direct answer to your question, talk to your gm about your aspirations. See what comes about during that discussion. More importantly, if a chance for this to happen, can you answer "why" your PK makes a better choice than the one originally chosen. If the gm says, he is not interested in "canon", but more in role-playing the characters, and "anything goes" then the doors could swing wide open. But then, how far from the path does the story go is the next question. If the answer is more subtle, more akin to not having certain events from happening or happening with the original characters, then the doors are open, but with restraints.

    One of my campaigns died when I did not allow a rival to Arthur to have a chance to pull the sword out of the stone as he was also a grandson of Uther. I had also ruled the players could become movers and shakers in the campaign, but my interpretation of that was not what the players had. So, I learned to listen more and better with the goals of my players.

    I would say, set yourself up for the future, but first, as I said, talk to the gm and find out what is being allowed and where you can change things.

  8. #18
    I would say just to have fun and see what comes about through RP. Your 1st Gen knight is likely starting out with one manor and probably isn't all that important to the rest of the realm. If you want to marry someone important, you need to show that you are also important. Work on getting that glory score up doing some heroic deeds and the doors will open. But, it can sometimes take awhile before your lord considers you worthy enough to give the hand of a notable heiress, and being a hero is dangerous. This route could leave your first PK dead with no heirs. So it has it's pros and cons.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Hzark10 View Post
    That depends on what your PK does. Guinevere and Lancelot's hidden romance eventually brings down everything. The PK, if male and my assumption is you are, could not replace Arthur, but could replace Lancelot.
    If the player knight does replace Lancelot as Guinevere's lover, their affair might not necessarily destroy the kingdom - depending on the stature of the player knight.

    One of the major reasons why the Love Triangle (more accurately, the exposure of the Love Triangle) brought Arthur's reign crashing down was that Lancelot was an "over-mighty subject". He was the head of a major faction at the Round Table, the de Ganis clan, commanded the loyalty of approximately half the knights of the court. Because of that, a clash between Arthur and Lancelot meant civil war - even external war, because Lancelot came from Gaulish royalty, his family possessing its own kingdoms overseas. If the player knight who gets involved with Guinevere commands far less of a following, the consequences of their affair going public become less drastic - disgrace for the knight, banishment or execution, but a Round Table split in half, not likely.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel72916 View Post
    I realized that I am getting ahead of myself. As we are playing the Grand Campaign and are in Salisbury, is there someone that my first generation knight should go after, to set myself for the future?
    My recommendation:

    1) Marry quickly within your class (a young knight's daughter with a suitable dowry), and have plenty of sons. Your first character is the basis of your future dynasty. You want as many kids as possible. (Also, check with the GM if he is using the insanely deadly childbirth and child survival rules in KAP 5.2, or more realistic ones in Book of the Estate. If the wife has a 10% YEARLY chance of dying in childbirth, your first wife is going to die within a decade, leaving you well situated to pursue a second marriage to an heiress, below.)

    2) Playing the heiress game right at the start is foolish, IMHO, since your new, young character doesn't have the Glory and the liege's favor to aspire to such a prize (IMHO). At the very least, it ought to take years to build up enough goodwill with the liege to make it happen, which means your character might very well die heirless himself, rendering all of that moot. (This depends on the GM, of course.)

    3) Uther Period in itself is more of a warrior's playing field, the romantic knights and courtly amor and courting the lady rather than impressing her father come much later. And the way to impress the father tends to be becoming a big man in Glory, liege's favor and in heroics.

    4) Like Craiger89 said, while your first character is a landed vassal knight and thus in the top ten percent or so of all the knights, he is not a Baron, and very unlikely to marry to become a Baron. Really, the best way to 'secure' your future is to have kids and get as much Glory as possible, which hopefully will translate to a leading role in advising the Count, and perhaps being able to arrange better marriages for your sons. For instance, being granted the wardship of one of the heiresses by the grateful Count, allowing you to marry your eldest son to the girl.

    A lot of the above depends on the GM, of course. Some hand out heiresses and manors like candy. But the above would be correct in the campaigns I run.

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