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Thread: p. 134: Manor income £6 -> £10

  1. #1
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    p. 134: Manor income £6 -> £10

    This is another of those things that have changed since KAP 5.1 was published.

    Book of the Estate and Book of the Warlord introduced New Economics for landholdings in Pendragon, a unified system that scales up nicely from a single manor all the way to baronial honours.

    The average manor now has an income of £10, not £6, and thus worth 10 Glory per year. However, some things that were earlier abstracted away are now included to the calculation, such as foot soldiers and some other personnel, so the actual amount left for the knight's & his family's upkeep is the same £6, but also extra £1 in discretionary funds that the knight can spend as he wishes, like supporting a second squire.

    In the simple level (all you really need), here is how New Economics works:
    Knights supported: 1 per £10 (so for a 1-manor vassal knight, this would be himself)
    Foot soldiers supported: 3 per £10
    Discretionary funds: £1 per £10
    Family's Standard of Living: £5 + £1 per £10 (so for a 1-manor vassal knight, this would be the old £6 = ordinary maintenance)

    A 3-manor (£30) knight would have:
    3 knights (himself + two household knights)
    9 foot soldiers
    £3 discretionary funds
    £5 + £3 = £8 standard of living, so still ordinary maintenance (until he spends £1 from discretionary funds to upgrade to Rich knight)


    In case of a lord with vassal knights, the discretionary funds and standard of living are based on manors the lord himself holds directly, without vassals.

    So a baron with a £300 honour, having 5 vassal knights with a £10 manor each, would hold £250 income of land directly, and thus:
    30 knights (himself + 24 household knights + 5 vassal knights)
    90 foot soldiers (75 under his direct command and 15 via the vassal knights)
    £25 discretionary funds (based on £250)
    £5 + £25 = £30 standard of living (Superlative)

  2. #2
    Senior Member Taliesin's Avatar
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    Thanks, Morien. A very help summary.

    It's worth noting that all of the detail in the Book of the Estate of the household personnel and so forth was solely included to provide some context as to the composition of a typical household, at the various sizes. To answer questions like "Do I have a messenger in my household? A healer? A falconer?" etc. They are not supposed to be straightjackets, but rather at-a-glance guidelines. People should not be expected to track all this data; and indeed it is not all that useful for actual gameplay. But it can occasionally provide some useful context.


    Thanks,


    T.
    “Only a fool wants war, but once a war starts then it cannot be fought half-heartedly. It cannot even be fought with regret, but must be waged with a savage joy in defeating the enemy, and it is that savage joy that inspires our bards to write their greatest songs about love and war.”

    ― Bernard Cornwell, Excalibur

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Morien View Post
    This is another of those things that have changed since KAP 5.1 was published.

    A 3-manor (£30) knight would have:
    3 knights (himself + two household knights)
    9 foot soldiers
    £3 discretionary funds
    £5 + £3 = £8 standard of living, so still ordinary maintenance (until he spends £1 from discretionary funds to upgrade to Rich knight)
    Shouldn't it be £6 (from standard of living) + £3 (discretionary funds)?
    Why are you counting only £5?
    Shouldn't it be £4 (from knight & squire) + £2 (from lady & children) = £6?

    Sorry to resurrect this thread.

  4. #4
    Quick question, BoE states manor is 10L, glory = 1 per 1L of land. So 10 glory per year, is this separate/in-addition to lifestyle? Simply stated, a PC with a 10L manor is living an ordinary lifestyle (6L), so annual glory for land and lifestyle is now 10 glory/year? But what about rich knights?

    KAP 5.2 pg 184: Ordinary:Ordinary knights are those most often discussed in King Arthur Pendragon; generally, whenever the word “knight” is used, unmodified by another adjective, it refers to a character of this economic standing. Ordinary knights comprise the majority of chivalry. Player-knights always begin the game as Ordinary knights in terms of economic quality. An Ordinary knight receives £6 to £10 per year in money and food, which keeps himself, his family, a single squire, and his horses in a healthy and robust manner of living, and his equipment in good repair. This may be provided by his lord, or by a normal manor.
    Glory: No effect.

    Estate holders : Lords of estates are Rich Knights, and their incomes are mostly predictable and reliable

    I've usually allowed players who wish to spend money out of pocket to go up to Rich lifestyle to get glory for it. Glory: Knights who live above their expected means (i.e., more than £10 per year) gain Glory equal to the annual number of maintenance libra spent; thus, a knight who has £11 per year also gains 11 Glory per year.

    I'm trying to figure out how it would work for a 50L estate: Standard of Living Estate holders live better than ordinary knights. Their Standard of Living expense, included in the estate’s budget, is £5 + 10% of the estate’s Customary Revenue. Thus, estate holders with an income of £40 or more live as Rich Knights (£9+), while those with £80+ live as Superlative Knights (£13+).

    Is living a rich lifestyle as a 50L estate holder expected thus part of the 50 glory per year for land, or do they get their rich lifestyle (5L+10% land=10L lifestyle) for 50+10 = 60 glory per year?
    Last edited by Tempest621; 08-22-2017 at 05:53 PM.

  5. #5
    Annual glory from upkeep and lands is equal to CR + extras.

    SP a CR40 knight already counts his Rich Upkeep as part of the 40 he gets from his lands. I read it as only money spent above the base amount counts but a strict reading suggests that any amount above the base awards full value. Since that meas 6£ to go from rich to superlative and gives 15 glory I'm alright with that.

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