Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: King Pellinore's Age & Death and Other De Gales' Ages

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    2,547

    King Pellinore's Age & Death and Other De Gales' Ages

    In KAP 5.0, Pellinore's age is given as 'early 30s' in 485 (introductory adventure, p. 199).

    This means that he will be around 60 by the time Battle of Terrabil rolls along in 513, during which he kills Lot. Fair enough, Lot in GPC write-up is a total wimp in personal combat, so even if Pellinore is wheezing a bit, he should make short work of Lot. Still, given that Pellinore is so praised for his ability, he must be a spry 60-year old still. Not impossible, though.

    Lamorak is born 501 in his GPC write-up. However, he is said to do excellent jousting during the wedding celebrations in 514 (p. 146). That is a darn precocious 13-year old again! Furthermore, in the Castle of Joy Adventure, which is stated to happen any time after 515, the PKs may meet Sir Lamorak, Knight of the Round Table, who has 18000 Glory. Not bad for a 14-year old! In p. 186, year 520, Lamorak is inducted into the Round Table. Clearly an exceptional 19-year old, but as a son of Pellinore, I can see that happening. After all, Tor gets in rather easily, too: knighted, wins against a couple of knights, no other heroics explicitly mentioned and gets into the Round Table in 517. That 520 would also work better as the earliest point for the Castle of Joy Adventure, even though even that is a bit too early for Lamorak to cover himself in so much glory.

    Tor is ready to be knighted in 514, and apparently gives a reasonably good accounting of himself. So I'd say he needs to be born in mid-490s at the latest. Which makes him around 60 years old during the Grail Quest.

    Aglovale is the eldest legitimate son of Pellinore. So he needs to be born before Lamorak. If Lamorak's age gets pushed back, So must Aglovale's. This is no great hardship, although it means Aglovale is getting on the age by the time he gets his RTK sash in 529.

    Percivale, though, is mentioned barely more than a boy in 532, but a strapping young man in 535, three years later. Well, I guess that is fudgeable by saying that he was 15 in 532 and had a late growth spurt.


    DEATH OF PELLINORE

    Pellinore is murdered sometime around 523. So he could have conceived Percivale, no problem. However, another little errate as to the description of his murder in p. 224: "Unknown to anyone for many years, the murderers are actually four of the five Orkney brothers, all except Gaheris."

    First of all, that should be Gareth who abstains, not Gaheris. Secondly, both Mordred and Gareth are too young to participate, even! Mordred just returned in 522 with the other May Babies and cannot be more than 12 by 523. Gareth himself comes to court as a 'youth' (Beaumains) after the Roman War (the event is totally missing in GPC), so he cannot be much older than Mordred. That leaves Gawaine, Gaheris (mentioned of having been Gawaine's squire, so within 6 years of age... Gawaine is a knight in 514, so Gaheris should be a knight by 520) and Agravaine.

    In Malory, it is just mentioned that Gawain avenged his father on Pellinore on tenth year after his knighting (hence, Gawain was knighted in 514, which fits). This implies that Gawain did it alone. Given that Pellinore would be around 70 at the time (if the KAP date is correct) and Gawain is impassioned (possibly Critically) by his Hate for his father's killer, I can see this happening. It also paints Gawain in a bit better light (which as an Orkney fanboy, I like :P).

    So it seems to me that there is a conflation here of Pellinore's death with Lamorak's death. In Malory, Lamorak is ganged up on by all Orkneys save Gareth.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    2,547
    Quote Originally Posted by Morien View Post
    Tor is ready to be knighted in 514, and apparently gives a reasonably good accounting of himself. So I'd say he needs to be born in mid-490s at the latest. Which makes him around 60 years old during the Grail Quest.
    I was re-reading Malory, and it actually says explicitly that Tor was 18 years old when he was knighted. Since the knighting happens at the Wedding, which in GPC is in 514, this means he must have been born 496.

  3. #3
    Sorry for bringing this old thread to life. But I noticed som new info, and got even more confused.

    In the newest supplement (Book of Uther), Sir(!) Lamorak shows up at Salisbury court in 492, complaining that his father is missing. Which means he must be in his twenties? or at the earliest 18? This obviously contradicts him being born 501. This means that if the presumption that Pellinore is born between 450-455, he gets children very early. If Lamorak is a knight in 492, he must be born around 470-475.

    Pellinore: 450-455
    Aglovale: 469? (Earlier than Lamorak)
    Lamorak: 470-475
    Tor: 495?

    Solutions:

    1. Lamorak is born 501 as written above, Perhaps it's Aglovane that shows up in 492?
    2. Lamorak is indeed a knight in 492. This means he is in his 40-50s when he becomes a round table knight in 520.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    2,547
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilmere View Post
    Sorry for bringing this old thread to life. But I noticed som new info, and got even more confused.

    In the newest supplement (Book of Uther), Sir(!) Lamorak shows up at Salisbury court in 492, complaining that his father is missing. Which means he must be in his twenties? or at the earliest 18? This obviously contradicts him being born 501.

    This should have been errataed (I know it was pointed it out during the proofing, but apparently the correction fell through the cracks). I think we decided that the Sir Lamorak in 492 is the BROTHER of King Pellinore, after whom Pellinore's son, Sir Lamorak of the Round Table, is named.

    It is impossible to push Aglovale and/or Lamorak back another 20-30 years and explain why they don't simply take over their father's kingdom in 490s (also, this makes them way too old in Arthur's time). Granted, it is also tough to explain why all these princes are born AFTER their father has already forsaken the kingdom and the crown. Which is why my current personal preference would be to make the legitimate sons to be born (mainly) during 480s and early 490s. This makes them mere kids when the Kingdom goes to pieces, but doesn't make them TOO old during Arthur's reign. This would make Lamorak around 30 by the time he gets into the Round Table, and Aglovale around 40 in mid-520s. Bit on the older side for Lamorak, admittedly, given his obvious prowess, but it could be explained by the Orkney hostility and the fact that seats are a few and doled out also as political counters.

    The other solution would be to push the whole Pellinore chasing after the Questing Beast WAY back to mid-500s, but that would make Anarchy play out somewhat differently in Cambria, with a puissant warrior-king like Pellinore around.
    Last edited by Morien; 07-02-2016 at 10:10 PM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Greg Stafford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Arcata, CA
    Posts
    3,092
    Actually Pellinore IS seeking the Questing Beast in the Boy King Period--it is he who fights Arthur and breaks the king's sword.

    KAP will allow some of these guys get to be in their 80's and active, so that is not so weird from the game angle.

    In truth, I really do not care about making these dates and ages "correct" any more that the medieval writers did. I do enjoy the machinations that others go through to try to chart them correctly, so please everyone continue. The fact is that these were written over several centuries when most people had no clue to the entire assembled history except for what they read, such as the Vulgate. Even that has contradictions.
    The nature of GPC requires some facts to be in specific years, though, so I do try to give some dates for births and deaths. But sticking close to it--that is, close to plotting the entire thing to be accurate year by year--will warp some of the stories considerably, and for me, the story is first. And the first story is that of King Arthur, around whom everyone else revolves, and I think that his dates are pretty good. But the farther from the core that the action gets, the more inaccurate it becomes.
    But as I said, please go ahead and keep calculating these!
    -- Greg Stafford
    Game Designer

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    361
    Pellinore's age could be far younger than using the dates. Where did the Questing Beast go. One of the places it probably went was the Other Side and as we know that place plays tricks on time. This could mean that Pellinore made jumps through time and is in actuality much younger than you would expect.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Greg Stafford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Arcata, CA
    Posts
    3,092
    Quote Originally Posted by Cornelius View Post
    Pellinore's age could be far younger than using the dates. Where did the Questing Beast go. One of the places it probably went was the Other Side and as we know that place plays tricks on time. This could mean that Pellinore made jumps through time and is in actuality much younger than you would expect.
    Great insight
    -- Greg Stafford
    Game Designer

  8. #8
    In the GPC, page 252, it is mentioned that "Percivale was the seventh legitimate son of King Pellinore. The king and his six elder sons were all slain in the wars and the countess was driven to distraction by her grief." Does this mean Lamorak and Aglovale, being eldest, were not legitimate? True, the dwarves say "the six elder sons were all slain", they don't specify if they were the legitimate or illegitimate sons. Can someone clarify this part? I can always rearrange this myself but I'd like to know more.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Greg Stafford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Arcata, CA
    Posts
    3,092
    This was answered in another post
    Thanks for making another thread for it
    -- Greg Stafford
    Game Designer

Similar Threads

  1. Gamemaster Character Ages
    By CommissarConn in forum Game Play: Your Campaigns, the GPC, and Story Line Questions
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-27-2015, 04:19 AM
  2. replacing pellinore
    By SirKnightly in forum Game Play: Your Campaigns, the GPC, and Story Line Questions
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-03-2015, 09:32 AM
  3. The De Gales/Orkney rift
    By Morningkiller in forum Game Play: Your Campaigns, the GPC, and Story Line Questions
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-16-2013, 03:07 PM
  4. Using KAP for later periods? High middle ages?
    By SirBrian in forum Rules Questions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-20-2012, 03:12 AM
  5. Books set in the middle ages
    By Gentleman Ranker in forum Arthur: Legend, Literature and References
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-27-2011, 02:39 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •